A Stand-up Guy on How to Be a Force for Good. Meet John Madigan.
We think of you as a “Force for Good” on gender equity. What does that mean to you?
A lot. This topic really cranks me up. I am so tired of “I am a good mentor, I coach women.” Anyone can give advice or applaud themselves for good intentions or well-intentioned verbiage, but those are passive, low-risk behaviors. We have to use our power to enable talented people and share, or leverage, our power. That means putting our credibility and ourselves on the line. If someone is beating up a high performer for a mistake she made two years ago, and she might be at risk of biases toward them, a Force for Good will put our credibility on the line. Whatever control I have in my world, I exercise that power….It’s like the way you talk about an investor mindset. See something, advocate for a person, as if for a deal, and show how the benefits far outweigh risk. If you think this person is going to have an impact, make the argument and make it possible.
The best compliment I received from a women leader on my team was “you really are a stand-up guy” so it is important to stand up and stand firm in your support.
You have a strong track record of developing and advancing female leaders who are successful over time. Talk about how please.
My job is doing the work to recognize the talent in front of us. I work to get to know what someone has to offer through inquiry and deep listening. Instead of falling for short-cuts about discomforts or over-focusing on shortcomings, I hunt for the person’s best and do my best to make their unique assets visible – to me, to that person, and to others.
People often don’t recognize what they are good at, they assume because it was easy for them, everyone does it. Everyone doesn’t do it, not everyone can do what you do. A good leader works hard to be a mirror for others’ talents and then to develop and deploy them.
Can you give an example of how do go beyond the superficial to get at the person’s strengths?
Don’t be satisfied with the superficial initial reply. If you ask about the accomplishments, here’s how the typical chat will go. Go deeper. I ask because a lot of times people – male or female -- don’t recognize their talents.
If a candidate says, “I accomplished X,” then I reflect back something like this: “So I hear ___.” Then I work to listen a level deeper, and think about what that involved, saying something like, “I imagine that was a tough sell in that environment. How did you manage to pull that off? What enabled your success?”
The candidate might reply with something that is dismissive, like “I did what anyone would do.” It’s so common, and women are vulnerable to biases that encourage them to under-state their contributions. So I try to offer my honest sense of what is valuable about this person’s approach or skills, and to listen for what makes that person tick, and will say something like this: “That’s a unique approach and set of skills you bring, and I can see your passion on that topic…Not everyone would have pulled that off…I see XYZ strengths in play here, and really no one else on the team brings them the way you do. Here’s how I would describe them…”
Because my perspective is broader, I can gift that person language about her strengths and potential.
You have a reputation for being exceptional about seeing people kindly and realistically, and for preparing them well to enable that potential. How do you do that?
My first focus is on really building competencies and confidence, in tandem. That is a real investment.
Years ago, when she worked with me as a mid-level HR professional, I remember telling a current CHRO at a financial services corporation that she could run a human resources organization and why, and laying out specific skills that next level would require. My contribution to enabling her to believe and leverage her past successes, and the perspective and investments I offered to really prepare her for future successes and positive impact – those are things I am really proud of us as a leader.
As another example, when I was developing my successor at a large local Fortune 100 company, I had multiple conversations that laid out, “Here’s the difference between the job you have now and the job you want.” She was a phenomenal executor and thought succeeding me in my job would be just a slightly bigger version of hers. That would have been wrong, and she would have really struggled had I not prepared her. The new role would be quite different – more advocacy, relationship focus, political considerations, and higher accountability for strategic results and human capital….This is where mindful attention to their risks or gaps comes in – and we put that in over several months, and she was ready when I stepped out of that role.
And you have to build the person’s confidence that he or she is up to the challenge. Looking at what the person is doing now and has handled in the past can make the transition easier. I offer a tangible comparison. If you know what a person is used to, the balls they are juggling, it’s much easier to convince her that she can indeed handle the challenges of the next role. She then can start to believe that the effort is worth it.
If you had one message for people who aspire to be Forces for Good, what would it be?
This cannot be just advice. And, it certainly cannot be folding in the face of pushback. Forces for Good have to make a results-focused case for and to the person, and to invest to make it happen. Taking proactive action with some personal risk should be a requirement for being a Force for Good as well and so should a track record of results.